The race has been won for the 2025 best TV channel but who really came out on top?

The race has been won for the 2025 best TV channel – but why are two stations claiming the crown? Ben Willee, Executive Director of Media and Data at Spinach Advertising, talks to Brooke Corte on Nine Radio’s Money News about the latest in media and marketing.

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Ben Willee, Executive Director of Media & Data for Spinach Advertising

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Brooke Corte (Host)

Welcome back to Money News and when we approach the end of the year, you always get some movement among the media companies. A lot of the jostling we hear around this time of year with media is about who claims the title is the best of 2025 and more importantly, who can get the advertisers to jump on board for next year. But in what is becoming maybe even an annual TV event, both Nine and Seven have claimed top spot for this year. Yep, both of them got top spot, they say. Of course nine is the owner of this radio station, but if you look at what the OzTAM ratings showed, it was that Seven was the most watched channel in 24 of the 40 rating survey periods or survey weeks. But Nine preferred to use the primetime numbers in order to explain its dominance. So who actually gets the chocolates and how much does it actually matter? Ben Willee, the Executive Director of Media and Data for Spinach Advertising, and it’s great to chat with you once again on Money News. Hey, Ben, welcome to the show.

Ben Willee

G’day Brooke, great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Brooke Corte (Host)

And it is always fun to see how they spin the data and how they say that they’re the best again, what’s the importance of claiming the number one spot? Why do they do it?

Ben Willee

Well, it’s funny isn’t it? Because those statistics can be as slippery as an eel covered in Vaseline but I think what’s interesting is Seven are justifiably claiming number one against total audience, 41.6% compared to Nine’s 40.5 and I won’t even bother with the ten numbers because they’re a long way down but Nine really claims what is the really important demographic for advertisers, and that’s the 25-54 year olds that advertisers tend to target. Now we can talk down the track about whether that might be a bit young, and people 54 plus have lots of money and lots of enthusiasm for life. But anyway, I think really nobody apart from TV executives in expensive restaurants, really care. All we want as consumers is something decent to watch while we ignore each other on the couch.

Brooke Corte (Host)

And so when you get together with the advertisers, did they chat about the numbers? What are the ones they actually say, oh that one works. Is it primetime ratings, those overall numbers? What do they like to actually talk about?

Ben Willee

Well, look, they definitely don’t care about who wins the annual chess beating contest, they just want high ratings and engaged viewers so they’re ads are seen by lots of people who’ll potentially buy their products. So if the network delivers a big audience, fantastic. If not, they’ll happily spend their money somewhere that does and that really goes to the heart of the issue. So I think maybe 20 years ago when these numbers were very important. These days, advertisers have a lot of choice and they’re also smart enough to know that they don’t really matter.

Brooke Corte (Host)

And you do have your own data as well that you’ve got going on.

Ben Willee

We’ve got more data than you can poke a stick at and it’s everything from the actual number of people watching, to what their engagement levels are, to how well advertising works. And I can assure you, there’s a big difference between an ad in a highly engaged sporting event on the big screen in your living room compared to something that you’ve scrolled through on your phone at 2am while you’re trying to sleep. So it’s a lot more complicated environment now, and advertisers are very aware of that.

Brooke Corte (Host)

And you alluded to it when you said that the age group of 25 to 54 year olds is the one they target, but we all know it’s the boomers, we can use the term, can’t we? The boomers, that’ve got all the money. So what is the answer to why they seem to still talk about 25 to 54 year olds?

Ben Willee

Well, look, you know, advertising as an industry is unreasonably obsessed with youth and a big part of that is they believe people’s habits are formed when they’re later, so they’re less valuable. But I think what we’re learning now, and if you look at the most recent data on the ad market, categories like finance and travel are absolutely going through the roof because that’s where the money is. And the good news Brooke, is it’s not just boomers, the Gen Xers are getting to a point where their houses are being paid off, they’ve worked hard, they’ve got a bit more money, certainly got more resilience than other generations, and they’re looking to spend it on themselves and that’s a great opportunity for advertisers. And I think realistically that 25-54 is a bit old fashioned and people in their 60s and 70s are living a wild life these days and good on them I say.

Brooke Corte (Host)

Yeah, my mum’s life is far more interesting than my own I’ve got to say, I’d have her life over mine most days. And that’s kind of the TV world, what about the Radio world? Because it’s all about ownership that is in the headlines at the moment. We’ve had the ACCC approve the merger between Seven West and Southern Cross recently, but this morning we heard that News Corp has sold its entire stake in ARN, which is the owners of the Gold and the Kiss networks, so what are they positioning for here?

Ben Willee

Well, it’s a very, very good question, but I know what it’s not and it’s definitely not a vote of confidence in ARN media. And if you cast your mind back to mid 2023, ARN was the top of the radio pile and they were going to take over SCA and they were really, really flying and if you look at their market capitalization, Southern Cross Austereo is now sitting at about 196 million and ARN is sitting at about 139 million. So they’re both very small businesses but ARN is challenged and I think part of the reason that News Corp had a stake in ARN is they could see that radio networks are a potential predator and or prey and they’ve wanted to have a seat at the table. But it really wouldn’t surprise me Brooke, and this may be good news, but I suspect that News Corp are going to use that money to buy this network, the Nine Radio network that we know is up for sale. And I think that’s a good fit, you know there’s a similar audience, a similar political bent, and I think that would make sense for advertisers and for the business of media. So you heard it here first, Brooke and you never know what might happen before Christmas.

Brooke Corte (Host)

That was literally the phrase that was going to come out of my mouth, you heard it here first. Okay so, Ben Willee reckons News Corp’s positioning to buy the network that you’re listening to right now.

Ben Willee

Potentially can I just put it in inverted commas.

Brooke Corte (Host)

You can say potentially, that’s fine you still heard it here first. If you’re right Ben, yes exactly. Now what about Kyle & Jackie O because if you want to talk about ARN, we’ve got to talk about the infamous hosts we’ve had this ratings nightmare recently for these guys. Well, it’s kind of been ongoing for a while now, but I hear that the management’s now hiring a team of sensors for the show. That is the most peculiar update I would have thought, you’d expect out of the Kyle & Jackie O show.

Ben Willee

Well, this is the advertising business story that just keeps giving, isn’t it? So the regulator of radio in Australia is called the Australian Communications and Media Authority, or ACMA for short, they’re had a lot of complaints about Kyle & Jackie O, and more recently, their chair described the show as repeatedly and deliberately airing content that is vulgar, sexually explicit and deeply offensive. Now that seems to be working for them in Sydney because their ratings are quite strong, not so much in Melbourne. But as a result of that, the regulator has put a condition on Kiss 106 in Sydney and 101 in Melbourne that Kyle & Jackie O aren’t allowed to talk about and there’s no reference to sexual activity or sexual descriptions. So now they have to have a sensor on the show, potentially on a dump button to stop them talking about that stuff. And I can tell you they’re in a very tricky environment and I know what is number one on the list of the new CEO of ARN, Michael Stephenson’s to do list in the new year and that’s for sure it’s what to do with Kyle & Jackie O.

Brooke Corte (Host)

Yeah, gosh and just finally, the next time we will speak to you Ben, we will have already seen a week or so of the government’s highly controversial social media ban, which will be in place as of next week. But even at this late stage, you see more companies added to the list, there’s a court challenge being taken against the decision, you do feel like maybe the government should have just checked if it all worked and how it panned out before they were overseas trumpeting the success of the whole thing.

Ben Willee

Well, we’re standing on the precipice of trying to stop the most morally flexible and technically gifted generation from accessing social media and I’ve got a 14 year old in my house, and I can tell you what, he’s making moves like an Ocean’s 11 movie. I genuinely have no idea how this is going to play out but I can say that if TikTok goes quiet at my place on Wednesday next week, it’ll be a very good thing.

Brooke Corte (Host)

Hallelujah! Hey, I wish you the very best of luck with that one, Ben. Thank you so much, Ben Willee Executive Director of Media and Data for Spinach Advertising. Great to chat, Ben. Thanks.

Ben Willee

Thanks very much for having me, Brooke.