Jimmy Kimmel has returned to US television screens, but has his suspension changed the landscape for talk show hosts forever?

Ben Willee, Executive Director of Media and Data at Spinach Advertising, talks to Brooke Corte on 2GB Radio’s Money News about the changing face of talk back shows and more.

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Ben Willee, Executive Director of Media & Data for Spinach Advertising

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Brooke Corte(Host)

Well, what did you make of Jimmy Kimmel’s return to the airwaves this week? You know those late night talk shows in the US, they were once cultural staples, weren’t they? You think of their hosts like David Letterman and Jay Leno and Conan O’Brien. Probably makes you miss the days of local legends like Graham Kennedy and Don Lane, doesn’t it? But these shows really aren’t what they were, and that’s seen ratings well and truly drop. This once dominant format has now turned into essentially just a political hotbed. And we’ve had Kimmel suspension highlighting just how polarised light entertainment has become. But do we need more laughs than elections for late nights? Ben Willee is the Executive Director of Media and Data for Spinach Advertising, and he’s with us on the show again. Ben, you’re a regular. It’s always great to hear your voice. Thanks for joining us tonight.

Ben Willee

Oh, thanks for having me Brooke and welcome back into the chair.

Brooke Corte(Host)

Oh. Thank you. It’s good fun. And I was looking forward to chatting to you. And we’ve got plenty to chew on this week. Jimmy Kimmel’s the infinite suspension, which didn’t even last a week. But you know, the role of these late night talk shows and the hosts that, you know, front and centre, it’s really fundamentally changed, hasn’t it?

Ben Willee

Well, yeah look, I think so. And I’ll start with a bit of background. Is that, Jimmy Kimmel’s late night talk show host was pulled after a controversy about his remarks on the shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. Now, what’s interesting about this is I actually listened to what he said, and he wasn’t really talking about Charlie Kirk. He was talking about President Trump’s reaction and comments and how President Trump appeared to be more interested in the White House ballroom than memorialising his friend. So the answer to your question is, the role of the late night talk show has not fundamentally changed. We’ve just have an administration now that’s more sensitive than a vegan and a sausage sizzle.

Brooke Corte(Host)

Whoa. And US politics are all politics, you could say the same here. It’s become just more polarised generally. So it’s probably not surprising that the on-air talents have gone that way. And as you said then if you get a Trump front and centre, then it’s all pretty spicy, isn’t it?

Ben Willee

It is. And I wonder how much of it is, is social media outrage because I’m not necessarily sure he’s polarising as a figure. You know, he’s on television. He can’t be too polarising because he still needs to attract a mass audience. So he’s got to appeal to most people. So, you know, I think he needs to be somewhere in the middle and can’t go too far either way. Otherwise you lose too many, too much audience.

Brooke Corte(Host)

Well, actually, when he returned, you’ve probably seen the figures, the audience topped 6 million, so that absolutely blew it out of the water. Can I be cynical and say maybe the network owners quite liked that and maybe even planned for it?

Ben Willee

Well, what a great question. And it’s definitely a happy accident and possibly planned for. But I mean, really, the suspension is just free advertising in disguise, isn’t it? Because everybody’s talking about it. And here we are halfway around the world talking about it. And to me, it’s a bit like banning tequila shots in a nightclub. All of a sudden, everybody wants one of more.

Brooke Corte(Host)

Why don’t we have similar, similar kind of chat shows these days. We haven’t any kind of, we haven’t got any of those successful type shows. You’re an advertiser. Do they just not sell to Australians? Not funny enough? What is it?

Ben Willee

Yeah, I think it’s a pretty easy one to answer. And these shows are more expenses than they look, I mean, they’ve gotta have big sets. They’ve got to have writers, they’ve got to have live producers. So it’s a big, big undertaking. And it’s not something you can half arse. And with sort of revenue being siphoned away from traditional media, you know, they can’t afford to do this for something that wouldn’t necessarily be primetime ratings. So I think it’s unlikely in a small market like Australia will see a program like this for many years to come.

Brooke Corte(Host)

Sometimes you do feel like, oh, come on, where can we go for a laugh? You know, it’s just so hard to have a laugh these days.

Ben Willee

Oh, tell me about . I mean, the genre of comedy is just, you think it didn’t exist in Australian television production? And please, can someone work a bit harder and give us something that’s a bit more fun?

Brooke Corte(Host)

Yeah, I agree, I just, and you know, sometimes, I want Ricky Gervais on the TV and I think how does he keep getting away with it, it’s damn funny. He keeps getting away with all that. I didn’t even know how in this day and age.

Ben Willee

Yeah, look that’s what I think we want is, is we want to be a little bit offended, but everyone’s so scared of a social media pile on that no one’s prepared to go a little bit and take us all out of our comfort zone, which is what comedians should be doing, and they should be satirising, especially politicians. So it’s an enormous shame. And, let’s hope someone comes up with some good ideas in that space in Australia.

Brooke Corte(Host)

We have our own, I guess the closest we’ve got it to a TV talk station is Sky news here in Australia. And on the same vein, it was actually in a bit of trouble this week. So Sky news aired this influencer who has her own show, and the views that were aired on that show were quite controversial. And I guess we’re used to that from Sky news. But it was the fashion sense that caused the drama, wasn’t it? There’s a review, into the wearing of bacon by the guest, and talking about, Islam and the rest. But, you know, for me, this is the kind of shtick that that Sky banks on so does controversy just generate views for a station like Sky? Is it welcome?

Ben Willee

Well, this is what my 16 year old daughter would describe as thoroughly bizarre. You know, it’s a right leaning TV station. They have a program called Freya Fires Up, and they have a guest who is clearly after some publicity, and he’s claiming he’s wearing bacon to protect himself from the Islamic terrorists. And look, it shows the network had a fair bit of work to do in vetting their guests. And, you know, I don’t think it’s a surprise to anyone that on Sky news, some of them went a bit too far in these sort of comments. But the good news and all credit to the host Freya Leach, who recognised the guest had gone too far even for Sky News and apologised. So I think what we’ll say is, the producers down on that show working a bit harder to, to give us something that’s more than just sort of performance cosplay and, and come up with some genuine guests.

Brooke Corte(Host)

Yeah. Bizarre. I think that’s probably the best way you can summarise it. I totally agree. Of course, Sky News in Australia is part of the Murdoch family empire, and this week there were rumblings of a different move for the Murdochs, now expected to be part of the US ownership of TikTok. How significant is that?

Ben Willee

Well, so many questions. You know, what about Australia? Which version do we get to? Do we get the US version. Who owns the algorithm? Who runs it? I mean, the real question here is, is TikTok for under 25s in Australia is by far and away the number one screen that’s consumed. I mean, we’ve got numbers in excess of 2.5 hours on average for people under 25 in Australia.

Brooke Corte(Host)

2.5 hours. What? Not a day. Don’t say a day.

Ben Willee

A day.

Brooke Corte(Host)

Oh no. Okay, okay.

Ben Willee

So you’ve got an algorithm that is controlled by a government in a foreign country. And how easy would it be for them to tweak that algorithm to then make people be less interested in the things that are, strategically important to Australia or to spread misinformation? So it’s an enormous risk for us as a country or for any country. And I sort of agree with the sentiment of what’s going on here. But adding the American version to a bunch of ageing billionaires is a bit like giving your grandma control of a skate park. So hopefully that, you know, they have a plan and it’s well considered because if they do, I want to invest because this platform, people love it. It’s making huge amounts of money and it’s certainly going to grow in the short term. So fascinating to watch this one play out.

Brooke Corte(Host)

Ben Willee, Executive Director of Media and Data for Spinach Advertising. Great to chat. Thank you.

Ben Willee

Thanks very much for having me Brooke.