Kyle & Jackie O face new ACMA pressure over offensive content. Ben Willee unpacks the fallout for ARN along with AFL and NRL moves

Ben Willee, Executive Director of Media and Data at Spinach Advertising, talks to Evan Lucas on Nine Radio’s Money News about Kyle & Jackie O facing ACMA pressure, ARN fallout, AFL and NRL moves and more.

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Money News: Ben Willee, Executive Director of Media & Data for Spinach Advertising

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Evan Lucas (Host)

It’s fair to say we know the landscape inside out on this show, which is why we are quite shocked. A couple of years ago, we saw a $200 million, ten year deal go down at ARN to extend the services of shock jock Kyle & Jackie O for the decade ahead. But it’s two years in and is the deal actually paying off? Ben Willee is the Executive Director of Media and Data for Spinach Advertising he joins me on Money News once again to discuss that and more, Ben welcome to the program.

Ben Willee

G’day Evan Thanks for having me.

Evan Lucas (Host)

So we’ve got to start with what was at the time quite a surprising deal. The numbers were a lot of money at the time, two years down the track where are we sitting with it?

Ben Willee

Well geez, Kyle & Jackie O’s contract was supposed to be a triumphant moon landing for ARN, and it’s sort of turned somehow into a backyard fireworks display that set the shed on fire and what’s happened now is that they’re under pressure from the regulator, the Australian Communication and Media Authority, and they’re proposing some new rules for the show. One, obviously they want to rein in the offensive content, but they want to commission an independent audit of governance framework for the station. So, $200 million is a very expensive bet when things are so messy that you’ve got advertisers starting to pull back money and the regulator wanting to have an audit.

Evan Lucas (Host)

That was going to be my next question, I mean, the money’s one thing the audience is another, the plan for Melbourne hasn’t worked. It looks like they’re probably going to try and do something similar into Adelaide and possibly Perth, having pulled the local content off there as well. How are they going to go this on a national rollout? And as you just alluded to, money is talking I mean the revenue from the advertisers is fastly evaporating.

Ben Willee

Yeah, and locals are a really key strength for radio but what’s interesting to me is that ARN have recently announced two new breakfast shows, one in Adelaide and one in Brisbane. Neither of those two shows is Kyle & Jackie O. So, what we’re assuming from this is that the new CEO, Michael Stephenson, who’s come over from Nine, is still working through what went wrong with the Melbourne rollout so they don’t make the same mistake twice and I expect they will go national, but it’s not going to happen quickly based on the most recent announcements.

Evan Lucas (Host)

I also then want to go back to the thing that we’ve actually heard from the hosts themselves, which is that they are going to resist quite readily to that possible regulatory overlay that you just alluded to. How do you think that’s going to sit with the possible clashes in 2026 with the regulator and what Kyle & Jackie O want to take the show direction in.

Ben Willee

Well, you’ve got to look at it like this, it’s time for them to pull their heads in right, they’re getting paid 10 million bucks a year each. We’re talking about huge amounts of money, and they need to change what’s happening. Otherwise, they might not have jobs, and the decision might be taken out of their hands by shareholders, by the regulator, and even possibly, by the new management at ARN.

Evan Lucas (Host)

So let us go to the next question, do you think they have the ability to kill it early? Do you think there’s actually a clause in, what apparently was quite a watertight contract, that they could actually kill them out of it.

Ben Willee

Well, I think killing it early would require a legal miracle or the kind of escape usually found in fairy tales but what’s happening in the media world at the moment is very unconventional, and there is pressure coming from all directions. So, in an unconventional environment, unconventional outcomes happen. So I think it’s highly likely, I think this year we’re going to see, something has to happen.

Evan Lucas (Host)

We’ve talked a lot about live sport on this program many, many times over and over and just how much of a winning play it is, recently the AFL has just announced their wild card round for an extra two finals in 2026. Is this good for the game or is this just about Seven and free-to-air cashing in?

Ben Willee

I love this question, Evan and just for those who don’t know that AFL wild card round is, it’s a round in between the end of the home and away season and the start of the finals and traditionally there’s been no AFL and what the AFL have done is they’ve said the team that finished 7th will play the team that finished 10th, and 8th will play 9th in knockout games and the two winners joining the top six in the standard final series. In the last 20 years of the league, we’ve only seen two teams win the flag outside the top four place team. So I get that sport is a business and the AFL could talk about competitiveness all it likes, but to me this wild card feels about as subtle as a cash register falling down a flight of stairs.

Evan Lucas (Host)

I know what you mean, listening to all the debate this week, it’s also about does it advantage the 10th team over the 6th team? Does it disadvantage the 8th and 7th team which therefore will have to play more rounds than they were expecting to? But again coming back to it, this is based off the US models, we have seen that it works in the NBA, that it does also work in things like the NFL. Is it more also about the fact that we are clearly in our media world, moving further and further to what the Americans do rather than what we’ve done in the past?

Ben Willee

Yeah, without a doubt and we’re moving further and further to what the Americans do, because they’re really good at squeezing blood out of every stone when it comes to sports rights. And they’re unashamed in their pursuit of the dollar. And what we’re seeing is the AFL doing the same thing. So the next part of that and the question for you is Evan, how far away are we from a night grand final in the AFL?

Evan Lucas (Host)

Yeah that question is fascinating I think they might get towards probably a Twilight game but also let’s switch codes because the NRL is the next question. They’ve added a Perth team, do you think they’re going to go down the wild card step possibly even as early as next year?

Ben Willee

Well I mean if the AFL can mint extra cash from a wild card round, you bet the NRL executives are warming up their calculators. But they’re in a different space at the moment, the grand final last year was not just the highest rating TV show of the year, but the most watched grand final in the modern rating system since 2001. So their focus is to kick off an AFL style bidding war for the sports rights. And the AFL last year was worth 643 million a year and that’s the target that they’re aiming for, whether they get there is another matter. But for them it’s all about broadcast rights because if they’re got more money coming in, they can compete better with the AFL and soccer and all of the other sports that are encroaching on their business.

Evan Lucas (Host)

Just finally, today we read in the papers the American media and tech giants are clearly pressuring the president to get tough on our restrictions on television production, social media, and also our underage ban, how successful do you think they’re going to be?

Ben Willee

To me American tech giants sort of begging President Trump to fight the Australian rules. It just doesn’t make any sense, makes about as much sense as a bouncer arguing for you to get back into a nightclub you’ve just been booted out of. So they’re going to huff and they’re going to puff about innovation and freedom of speech. But we’ve seen some good results from Canberra and they’re in no mood to let Silicon Valley run the place like a dodgy, fun park. So it’s clearly complicated and the relationship with President Trump is transactional. So we’re just about to find out if Trump cares and if he does care, does Albo have the guts to stand up to him? Two pretty interesting scenarios. I can’t wait to see what happens.

Evan Lucas (Host)

Yeah, that’ll be the scenario of 2026. Ben Willie, as always it’s a pleasure. This is the last time that you and I will do this it’s been an absolutely great segment to have this with you. I know you’re going into 2026, but thank you for being part of the media section on Thursday afternoons.

Ben Willee

It’s been my pleasure, Evan. I’ve loved every minute of it and I’ve really enjoyed listening to you, so thank you very much and I look forward to listening again in 2026.